June 12th, 2008 @ 7:25 am by: Marc
60 Popular Pieces of False Knowledge
Mark Twain once said, “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”
Here are 60 pieces of false knowledge many people misquote as absolute facts.
- Shaving causes hair to grow back thicker. – Shaving does not cause hair to grow back thicker. This false knowledge carried by many people is due to the fact that hair wears down and appears thinner over time. Thus, new hair looks thinker than old hair and feels coarser due to unworn edges.
- We only use 10% of our brain. – We may only be using 10% of our total brain at any one given time, but this 10% is nearly 100% of the brain capacity designed to calculate the data sets we are currently working on. For example, the creative side of the brain isn’t going to help you remember a statistics formula. It wasn’t designed to do so and it will remain unused during this process.
- Rice is pure and healthy. – Actually, it’s often contaminated with small traces of arsenic.
- Milk is absolutely essential to your health. – It’s just one of numerous sources for calcium and Vitamin D.
- People should eat mostly carbohydrates. – After all, that’s what the food pyramid says, right? False! Look around at the average American’s midsection. An excessive intake of carbohydrates is fattening. Wholegrain foods containing fiber should be the primary source.
- Tar and nicotine in cigarettes cause cancer. – Nope, excessive smoke in your lungs causes cancer. In fact, the Radon and Polonium in the smoke is enough to account for most cases of cigarette related lung cancer.
- Being overworked can cause a nervous breakdown. – Actually, nervous breakdowns do not even appear as an official mental health disorder in DSM-IV.
- Depression is purely biochemical. – Depression is more closely related to a specific cognitive state of mind.
- Male masturbation is unhealthy. – I’m sure most teenage guys will love this. Research has shown that masturbating early and often may reduce Prostate Cancer later in life.
- Females are biologically inferior in math and spatial skills. – Statistically, males and females have very similar grade averages in math courses from grade school through doctorate level classes. Male enrollment, however, drastically out-numbers female enrollment.
- Based on global warming Earth will be hotter in 2000 years. – Nothing is certain. In this kind of complex nonlinear system, we could have an ice age.
- Corn based fuel (biodiesel) is better than gasoline. – It’s more expensive, increases the cost of food and still pollutes the environment.
- Religious faith alone heals. – This is only true on a physiological basis to a minuscule degree. Religious faith cannot replace medical intervention.
- Herbal medicine is healthier than modern medicine. – In numerous cases herbal medicine has been found to have either zero value or undesirable side effects.
- Chills don’t make you ill. – Wrong! Getting a chill in your body shocks your immune system, which prevents it from effectively keeping viruses at bay.
- Highly social people are psychologically healthier. – Not healthier, but usually a bit happier.
- Nutritional supplements make you live longer. – Quite often the opposite is true. Many people misuse supplements and end up doing more harm than good to their bodies.
- Hair and fingernails continue to grow after death. – Hair and fingernails do not grow at all after a person dies. This illusion is based on the fact that skin dries up and shrivels away from the foundation of hair roots and nails, making the hair and nails look longer than before death.
- String Theory – There has been zero proof that String Theory relates to the physical universe.
- The Big Bang was an explosion. – It was an expansion of space, not an explosion.
- Windows is easier to use than Linux. – Linux, harder? Only if you are completely against the notion of learning something new.
- A true free market exists. – Take a hard look at the price of oil and tell me that the recent 100% price spike is completely based around supply and demand and not partial price manipulation.
- Ozone is healthy. – Ozone is only healthy when used in controlled medical environments. Outside of that, it is harmful to the lungs if inhaled.
- Stretching before exercise is a sure thing. – Only if you stretch properly. Many people injure themselves due to improper stretching practices.
- Weight belts prevent injuries. – If used properly when lifting extreme amounts of weight, they do help. The problem is that most amateur weight lifters swing their bodies and hyper-extend their backs while lifting weight with their upper body. When they wear weight belts for upper body exercises they still swing their bodies and hyper-extend their backs, only this time they use more weight and the injuries are more severe.
- Soap kills germs. – Plain (non-antibacterial) hand soap does not kill germs. Instead, it lifts the germs off the surface of your skin, forcing them to be washed down the drain.
- Alcohol is a great antiseptic for open wounds. – Alcohol is a great disinfectant for intact skin and inanimate, non-living things. Alcohol is not effective or healthy when applied into open wounds. When used on open, exposed tissue, alcohol actually kills some of the human tissue along with the germs. This can drastically delay the healing of larger wounds.
- Coffee is unhealthy. – It’s all about moderation and timing. If you take excessive doses of coffee late in the day, you’ll be up all night, and that’s not healthy. However, coffee is also a great source of healthy antioxidants. Coffee consumption has been medically linked to the reduction of certain cancers and chronic diseases. There have even been controlled studies which have concluded that moderate doses of coffee can be a healthy energy booster for a person partaking is intense physical exercise.
- Fructose is healthier than Sucrose. – Sucrose (table sugar) is made from sugarcane. Fructose is usually made from corn (also found in fruits) and is a cheaper alternative to Sucrose. Once thought to be healthier, fructose actually has many negative downsides. Some of these downsides include cholesterol increases and digestion difficulty, in addition to the fact that it converts to fat more easily than other types of sugar.
- Exercise alone increases lifespan. – It increases the quality of your life and the ability of your body, but exercise alone has not been proven to increase lifespan. A regular habit of eating healthy food, however, will.
- Time heals all wounds. – Time does heal most psychological wounds, but if the wound is severe (e.g. someone killed your spouse) it may never fully heal.
- Eye exercises can improve vision. – Eye exercises for improving vision have never been scientifically proven to work. Results contain significant variance.
- Cheese is healthy. – Regular cheese contains an extremely high content of fat. As with anything, moderation is the key. In smaller doses it can be a decent source of calcium and protein.
- Tan people look good, so tanning in the sun is okay. – Extremely tan people have burnt skin. Check back with them at age 60 when they have skin cancer.
- Swimming in chlorine pools is healthy. – While the chlorine levels found in most swimming pools won’t noticeably hurt a swimmer, continuous exposure is unhealthy for the skin and the eyes. True saltwater pools are a much healthier alternative.
- Jogging along a traveled roadway is healthy. – Jogging along a traveled roadway forces the jogger to inhale large quantities of air polluted with car exhaust. Like secondhand smoke, this can be extremely bad for the health of a person’s lungs.
- Heading a soccer ball doesn’t hurt the player. – Soccer players don’t just head the ball; frequently their heads collide with another player’s head while trying to head the ball. In both cases there remains a potential for mild amounts of brain damage, especially when the heading is repeated over a long period of time.
- Free-diving doesn’t cause brain damage. – Do you really think it’s healthy for the human body to remain in deep water with no oxygen for extended periods of time? Based on the complications of pressure equalization and a lack of oxygen, free-diving will cause small amounts of neurological damage no matter how you breathe out while ascending.
- Brain scan imaging tells us lots about the mind. – Understanding the brain by looking at brain scan images is sort of like trying to evaluate a software-based computer problem by looking inside the computer case. You may locate the hard-drive, but you’ll never know exactly what’s on it. Brain scans are efficient at detecting gross physical abnormalities, which do save lives. However, much of the claims about reading a persons thoughts and future is complete nonsense. Brain scanning cannot even reliably detect early stage Alzheimer’s disease as of yet.
- Rorschach inkblot tests are reliable. – Various studies have depicted the conclusions found by inkblot test administrators as being akin to fortune teller cold readings. The controversy stems from several factors including the potential variance of interpretation, general verifiability and reliability, the inability to completely baseline testing norms and the limited number of psychological conditions the test is supposedly capable of determining.
- Positive thinking (and the placebo effect) helps heal cancer. – Medical treatment is the only way to eliminate cancer cells. Positive thinking does nothing more than help cancer patients mentally prepare for medical treatment.
- Eggs are unhealthy. – Eggs are a food you should eat regularly, but in moderation. They are a great source of essential nutrients and high in protein. Unfortunately, they also contain a high level of cholesterol, which means limiting intake to 1 or 2 eggs a day.
- Regular dentist visits create healthy teeth. – Dentists repair problems and make suggestions. Brushing your teeth twice a day and flossing will create healthy teeth.
- Poor people are lazy. – Money is not always the best measure of personal effort and drive. Remember, some millionaires are very poor and some people with small incomes are very rich… in happiness.
- Asians are smarter than Caucasians. – Asian grade schools are typically more disciplined and demanding than public school systems elsewhere (especially the USA). So while Asians do not dominate over Caucasians in intelligence, many of them come out of grade school with a much better education.
- You can drink as much water as you want. – It may sound weird, but people do die from fatal water overdoses. An overdose occurs when an overabundance of water in the body causes regular salt levels in the blood to become drastically diluted. This dilution can cause swelling in the brain and organs which may result in coma or death.
- Ivy League students get the best education. – Education is about self-discipline, curiosity and personal drive. Some of the most educated and successful people on this planet are self-educated. Strictly from a formal education standpoint, think about the fact that MIT (a top technical school) and Duke (a top medical school) are not Ivy League.
- Human growth hormone (HGH) increases life span. – In many cases the opposite is actually true. HGH does tend to improve the quality of life in a person’s elder years by reducing fat production in the body while increasing muscle mass. However, no critical factors for extending a person’s life span are affected, such as bone density improvements, cholesterol level reduction, lipid measurements, maximal oxygen consumption, or any other factor that would increase a body’s durability. Regular consumption of HGH has also been linked to various negative side effects such as joint swelling, joint pain, carpal tunnel syndrome and an amplified risk of diabetes.
- Shouting into a phone helps the other person hear you. – In most cases it will rattle your phone’s microphone and distort the sound of your voice, thus making it harder for the other person to comprehend your words.
- Tabasco sauce causes stomach cancer. – This is an urban legend. In reality, researchers have discovered that spicy pepper sauces may actually help fight the growth of cancer cells. The University Of Pittsburgh School Of Medicine found that capsaicin (the hot ingredient in pepper sauce) induces apoptosis in the cancer cells.
- Karate works better than dirty street fighting. – Sad, but true… The dirty street fighter with a concealed weapon will probably win the fight outside of a formal fighting ring.
- Expensive CD players produce better sound quality. – If you want better sound quality spend your money on a decent amplifier, equalizer and a high quality set of speakers. An expensive input device like a CD player is worthless if the other components are not in place.
- Monster Cables (expensive audio/video cables) are worth it. – In most cases you will hear and see no difference in the quality between a Monster Cable and a standard cable. The only exceptions occur in extremely high end systems where slight cable attenuation creates a noticeable difference in clarity.
- Lie detector (polygraph) tests are accurate. – The American Civil Liberties Union released a report in 1996 stating that “…there is no machine that can detect lies. The ‘lie detector‘ does not measure truth-telling; it measures changes in blood pressure, breath rate and perspiration rate, but those physiological changes can be triggered by a wide range of emotions.”
- Raw veggies are always healthier for you. – Cooking certain kinds of vegetables such as onions and garlic can actually increase the variety and potency of nutrients that get released inside a person’s digestive track. In addition, cooking vegetables also eliminates the potential for bacterial contamination such as salmonella.
- SUV’s are safer than regular cars. – When it comes to vehicles, bigger does not mean safer. Many SUV models are top heavy and have poor handling. Several recent accident-related death statistics have shown that fatality rates in SUV’s are no lower than those in standard size vehicles.
- Soft water is healthier than hard water. – Reverse it. Hard water is healthier than soft water. Hard water contains natural minerals and is sodium free. Soft water has sodium and is stripped of all natural minerals. So why do people soften water? Soft water has cleaning benefits. When soft water is used, soap lathers better and cleans objects more efficiently, kitchenware and shower glass will sparkle and remain scum-free and hair and skin will also feel smoother.
- Astrology has value. – Astrology is one of the world’s oldest con games. It’s complete rubbish. People want to believe that the future can be predicted, which is exactly why the traditions of Astrology still exist in modern cultures.
- Chiropractic therapy can cure various diseases. – Chiropractic therapy has been medically proven to help with some joint and bone related injuries, comparable to various forms of physical therapy. However, there is no medical proof to backup the popular assertions from chiropractors claiming that chiropractic therapy is an effective remedy for other diseases or conditions (such as chronic stress headaches).
- IQ is a perfect measure of intelligence. – IQ tests are only one of many imperfect techniques for measuring human intelligence. IQ tests don’t measure creativity, social skills, general wisdom, learned aptitude or an entire gamut of other traits most people would consider as a measurement of intelligence. IQ tests can be used as a measure of basic intellectual potential, but do not reflect accurate measurements in all circumstances.
For more in depth info on False Knowledge, please read:
- How False Knowledge Sank the Titanic, Blew Up the Shuttle, and Led America into War
- Plagues of the Mind: The New Epidemic of False Knowledge
- Counterknowledge
Note: This article is a guest post written by Penny and slightly copy-edited by Marc. Marc is the primary author of Marc and Angel Hack Life and Penny is a regular reader and contributor.
Photo by: banoootah_qtr
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89 Comments
June 12th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I’m glad to hear about the coffee thing and the tabasco sauce. I should be in good shape! I was surprised that positive thinking didn’t help more than you indicate here in combating cancer. I always thought that positive thinking boosted your immune system or increased some chemical in the body that would help you stay healthier. Who knew?
June 12th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Number 18 is only true for high-frequency AC electricity, not DC. And for practical purposes, low-frequency AC power cables that operate at 60 Hz and flow through normal sized power cables also flow uniformly through the cables, for instance. DC electricity flows uniformly through the cross-section of a wire, whereas AC electricity, because of its fluctuating behavior, exhibits what is called the “skin effect” in electromagnetic theory; as the frequency of the AC electricity increases, it tends to flow on the outside of the conductor and not uniformly through the inside.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
@John:
You are correct. I had it written wrong and I replaced #18.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I liked ALL of your 60 popular falsies, but # 58. However,59 out of 60 t’aint bad!
:o)
Sue
June 12th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
How about… Mammal blood is bright red or scarlet when oxygenated and a darker red when not oxygenated. It is never blue. Veins appear blue through the skin because of Rayleigh scattering, the same effect responsible for the blue sky.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:00 am
How about all lists are 100% accurate?
June 13th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Re: #59 Chiropractic Therapy
I noticed that the neutrality of the Wikipedia article that was cited has been disputed. So, I’m not sure that there is enough evidence or “medical proof” to say true or false about that claim. Maybe this one should be taken off the list–for now.
June 13th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
@Juliana:
Great addition! Thanks!
@Tom:
You’re right… not all lists are accurate. I didn’t write all these points (a guest blogger did), but I did edit them all. I had to work out some kinks, but I do believe each point holds a great deal of truth.
@P. Greek:
Penny’s point was not to state that #59 is false, but instead to point out that there is no medical proof to prove it.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
You guys are hilarious! I love this post. I followed the link for #9 and sent the article to my boyfriend. He thanks you very much!
June 13th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
It is amazing how often we accept things as truth based only on rumor or because we heard it once on TV! Great job exposing a lot of myths for what they really are. I love this kind of stuff!
June 14th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Well, i agree with most of the above BUT not with what is said about Astrology.
Indian Vedic Astrology can really predict your future most of the times.
The incorrect predictions are more due to human error rather than a flaw in the vedic astrology principals/methods.
Thanks
June 14th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I need to take the one about yelling into a cell phone to heart. Without even trying I get louder and louder on the phone. It’s a bad (and annoying) habit.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Some of these “facts” are subjective, and by passing them off as the real answers to false knowledge, you’re only perpetuating the same kind of behavior you seek to fight.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:57 am
@Fuzzles:
You’re right. A few of these points are subjective because they have not been scientifically proven one way or the other. The point for these is to first state the fact that the common misconception (i.e. false knowledge) is not true and then to state a counter argument.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:30 am
[…] post for our upcoming road trip: 13 Tips for Packing Light with Small Children and Marc featured 60 Popular Pieces of False Knowledge that disputed lots of common […]
June 20th, 2008 at 5:14 am
So, by your own admission, this list is inaccurately title. It should be “common assertions which may or may not be true.”
This does sort of make it look like stridently claiming these things are false then admitting they aren’t proven false is adding to the sum total of inaccurate information. In essence, you’re saying, “I don’t believe these things, so you shouldn’t either.”
Also, frankly, saying there’s no proof that something is true isn’t the same as “it’s not true.” It’s simply saying it can’t be supported by facts at present (like the assertions of temperatures in the future).
June 20th, 2008 at 6:53 am
@Orchid:
You have to remember, this is a guest post. I did my best to verify the accuracy of each point. Most of these points are 100% accurate. However, a few are a bit subjective like #51 and #31, but still hold a great deal of truth and support.
June 20th, 2008 at 11:57 am
I loved the article, but I am curious of your sources, since you only write some sources in each “none-fact”.
Nice to keep in mind that education isn’t always proportional with knowledge.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
I agree many of the things on this list are subjective. Saying positive thinking doesn’t do anything to help fight cancer is pessimistic many people who gave up mentally probably wouldn’t have survived it.
June 22nd, 2008 at 12:59 am
All astrology is nonsense–because their is no scientific reason that the position of planets should have any effect on human destiny. To say otherwise is to have
a primitive mystical view of the world–like believing in tooth fairies.
As Carl Sagan was found of saying: ” The gravitational pull of Mars on a baby is less than that of the obstetrician!” There is no other possible physical effect that the planets could have on you–unless you believe in magic.
There have been studies to see if “positive thinking” has any effect on cancer survival rates. And, the answer is NONE. It’s science, and if that’s pessimistic, well so be it.
There is statistical proof that chiropractic treatment doesn’t help medical illness except for bone and joint pain–which also makes scientific sense since the theoretical basis of chiropractic is scientific nonsense.
As to “time doesn’t heal all psychological wounds”:
Scientific studies on trauma have shown in animal
models and human brain scans that trauma induces changes in brain structure. Some of it may be reversible, but not all. There is good evidence that it is due to poisoning by Stress hormones.
Clinical evidence shows that PTSD can persist–especially without treatment–for an entire lifetime. This was also shown in dogs, as far back as Pavlov.
( For electromagnetics junkies):
Finally, yes, there is a skin effect–that is why
submarines use low frequency radio.
They are in a half space ( to first order), and the field is periodic–not DC.
A proper math analysis in the case of a wire and DC is complicated. For an infinite straight wire, it is easy–use fourier decomposition, the
Helmholz equation,
then Bessel expansions–IF it were true that the speed of light were the same in and out of the wire–which it is NOT. Thus, this proof ( That there is NO skin effect for a wire in the periodic field case)–at Wikipeda
is false. But, it should be doable by a smart masters student in math, and is probably somewhere in the literature. One then needs to do the DC case by Fourier decomposition.
And, anyway, a real circuit is not an infinite wire but a kind of topological torus–and with the proper boundary condition for Maxwell’s equations ( recall the different speeds of light in an out of the wire) it would be fun ( and nontrivial to analyse
properly). Sort of a Cambridge Math Tripos question of the old school.
If I had several days to waste, I would do it myself.
So, the correct answer would be–I am not really sure.
Thanks for pointing out the skin effect as relevant.
I had made the mistake (interesting for psychological reasons related to the title) of accepting the argument for no internal field in the DC case, given
in Vol II of the Feynman lectures on physics–where he shows that the Poyntng Vector is zero inside the wire. ( look up Poyntng vector in the index). He then states that in the DC case the energy is all outside the wire.
He made a subtle error–and this is in many books on the field. Anyone here know what it was? Fun!!
Feynman won a Noble Prize for coinventing Quantum Electrodynamics. But ANYONE can make an error.
MY error was to not think about his proof carefully
, in all the years since I read it.
June 22nd, 2008 at 1:17 am
One wonders about Homopathy–because the standard argument is that the dilution is so great that no effect could occur. But, if one is allergic to something, only a few molecules can cause a severe reaction. It is interesting that–as far as I know–no one has made this connection.
Many of the facts taught in school when I was a child in the 1950’s are now known to be false. Anyone remember the twilight zone on Mercury? ( The reason for the name of the TV series was this fact.)
Anyone recall that bad mothering caused Schizophrenia, Autism, Homosexuality etc. ,? How about: watching TV would destroy your eyes? Or:
Coffee would stunt your growth. Or: IQ can’t go up?
Or: Eye Exercises? Or, Eat Spinach like Popeye for iron ( it is mostly not bioavailable).
Another one: Airplanes fly because of the Bernoulli
effect–faster air on top has lower pressure.
June 22nd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I can’t help but sigh when people say things like Penny just did:
“All astrology is nonsense–because their is no scientific reason that the position of planets should have any effect on human destiny. ”
The only certain nonsense is that some humans are so all-fired arrogant that they believe if they can’t demonstrate it, it can’t exist.
June 22nd, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Elf, it is NOT arrogance—it is the scientific method.
If one doesn’t use the scientific method, then the world is based on MAGIC. Believing in magic, without proof
is arrogant.
IT isn’t that I can’t demonstrate that astrology works–it is that statistical analysis shows that it
it doesn’t, and that there is NO scientific reason that it should work. Astrology is nonsense–that is the conclusion of science–and that means not just me
but all SCIENCE.
Again, the planets are balls of ROCK–they move under the influence of gravity, and there is no possible
scientific mechanism that could cause the position of the planets at your birth to affect your destiny.
Astrology is a relic of the prescientific mind set–when people thought the planets were gods.
That is why Mars and Venus etc., were thought to affect destiny.
Why not read Carl Sagan on the subject?
If you like, there is a nice blog called “bad astronomy”
and believers in astrology can discuss it with the astronomers there. Be prepared, because astronomers know that astrology is no different from believing in
magic unicorn dust.
“Certainty is not arrogance, that is the point of mathematics.”–Gauss
June 24th, 2008 at 10:46 am
actually. regular soap does kill germs. It breaks through the fatty membrane of the bacteria cell and thus kills it.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
engeldwh,
Yes, but not very well. Many germs survive quite well in regular soap. That is why chemical disinfectants are used at hospital and in
surgury hand prep.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
I agree on every single point except the Linux thing and this is the only point where you sound emotionally motivated.
Maybe you are right if you reduce it to the OS itself but not to the real workflow you have to master when it comes to make your devices work find the drivers or work with others.
I’ve tried XP Vista several Linux derivates and OSX and nothing beats the simplicity of OSX.
June 24th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Most of this list is just common sense.
June 24th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
“Nervous Breakdown” is also know as an anxiety attack which is a sudden and severe manifestation of an anxiety disorder many of which are noted in the DSM, and the etiology of some can be partially stress… say from being overworked.
June 24th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Jens
I haven’t tried OSX yet.
But, I like linux a lot better than I like Windows.
I started when I wanted to do Latex ( a math markup
language) and I found out that the Windows version worked poorly and had to be expensively updated.
However, Fedora Linux had an included free version that worked very well using vim–a unix editor.
Later, I also added Ubuntu–which, once I found out how to run webvideo and audio on–works very well for most things–it is running faster than Windows did and with far fewer problems–n0 adware to remove or check, for example.
All my devices work just fine with Linux–perhaps because I use an older computer at home, and the
device drivers are now standard.
All the software for Linux that I ever need is free. That is very helpful to me. Unix is very powerful and with a few simple command line operations I can do amazing things.
Simplicity is not that important to me. What is important is working well, stability, and power.
And learning Unix wasn’t all that hard anyway.
It’s very logical.
I will never use Windows again–it is bloated, runs poorly, needs updates that cost money, software is expensive, and it need virus checkers, adware checkers etc. It isn’t very powerful either.
The Mac system is now built over Unix. I upset the guys at the Apple store when I asked for a free demo
of Leopard. They showed me all these silly bells and whistles and I finally just said: ” How do you bring up the unix terminal?” ” That is enough for me.”
( I had no intention of buying a MAC–my seven year old computer works just fine for me–when I use Linux.)
In short, I am very happy with my two flavors of Linux.
June 25th, 2008 at 1:19 am
yeah i think positive thinking does boost up your immune system which helps in eliminating the growth of cancer cells which only grows if your immune system is low..
and Unix systems are simple but you need to be intelligent enough to understand its simplicity..got that qoute from the web..=p
June 25th, 2008 at 1:20 am
by the way…thanks for the post…its great…=)
June 25th, 2008 at 2:19 am
Wade,
Good suggestion, but I don’t accept it, unless you redefine terms. Here is why.
Nervous breakdown was
, historically, a complete physical and emotional collapse–brought on by stress. It was treated by months of rest and then people returned to health, without other treatment. There was no stigma
for it, at the time, by the way.
It was associated with a certain physical type –thin,
and ectomorphic ( which–see below–would be also a result of too much cocaine!) Such people were called Neuroasthenic.
We just don’t see that anymore–if indeed it ever existed. But, this may be because we have antianxiety drugs.
The DSM does list anxiety disorders and it is certain that if nervous breakdown existed it would be listed in that classification–but it isn’t there.
My theory is that there never was such an illness as nervous breakdown, but that there was unrecognised “bipolar” disorder–which led to extreme overwork–and then depressive collapse in a cyclical fashion.
One certainly sees a lot of historical accounts of successful scientists that involve successive “nervous breakdowns”. These date from the 19th and early 20th century. When re-reading E.T. Bell’s “Men of Mathematics”, I was struck by how common this was–and how when I read these accounts recently, it screamed “bipolar disorder” to me.
There was also a lot of abuse of stimulant drugs–such as cocaine–which was legal in the 19th century.
There is no evidence either, that
overwork stress leads to “acute anxiety syndrome”–in fact, it is believed to arise from underlying
emotional issues–often from childhood or social relations.
This reflects clinical practice–and may be just another false belief of
psychotherapists.
Moreover “acute anxiety syndrome” requires treatment not just rest.
Pavlov did show that dogs could be
conditioned into ” stress collapse” but not by overwork–by being pushed into double binds under torture conditions.
So perhaps, if one is being TORTURED at work ( by abuse) with double bind situations, one might have some sort of collapse–but overwork alone doesn’t seem to be enough. And, even the above is conjecture–for it isn’t in the DSM–and we are not dogs.
Soldiers do show “battle fatigue”
–once known as shell shock–and this is in the DSM, as form of postraumatic stress disorder. But, conditions of battle ( involving horrendous
scenes of dismemberment etc.) are not the usual conditions of “overwork”.
So, I guess I don’t accept your hypothesis. Still, it was a very interesting idea.
Of course, you don’t have to accept my statement either.
It is the discussion that is important. Rather than accepting things blindly–one must think and discuss them.
Thanks for making me think!!
June 25th, 2008 at 2:35 am
Jens,
Ok, I played around more with OSX at my friend’s place, and I still agree with my initial impression of OSX
( which is Leopard) from the Apple store demo.
It’s great if what one wants is a windows like system that has a lot of glitzy eyecandy and can do simple things with a minimum of user learning.
But, I much prefer the power of straight unix–just give me the unix terminal.
I don’t like eyecandy and chatty programs. I like command line, control and power.
And free is great too. Apple computers are very expensive–run the same chips as cheaper computers, and one pays a premium for the Leopard glitz.
By the way, if one does like OSX Leopard, it has been implemented as a free linux based imitation.
After all, OSX is based on Unix.
This was available with days of the release of Leopard.
Most of the Linux-unix community couldn’t care less.
In fact, I almost never use the windows imitation “Graphical inteface” in Linux–I find it slow and silly. I just run Linux as unix, from the command line. Less than ten simple commands do all the “graphical” stuff, and better.
I think putting the “Graphical Inteface” in Linux was an error–more useless bloat.
Unix is not supposed to be windows.
June 25th, 2008 at 8:50 am
This is true to some point, Alcohol is a BACTERIOSTATIC which means that fixes germs and bacteria so it doenst replicate or reproduce but doesn’t kill it. If u want to kill germs and bacteria you need a bactericide like iodine, which is safer on any tissue.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Unfortunately, two of these I highly believe are wrong.
“Fructose is healthier than Sucrose”
“Fructose” is simply the natural sugar inside of fruits and vegetables, and fructose is much healthier then table sugar, yet the side effects come from people who might eat excess fructose, excess amounts of fructose also causes weight gain, and with the amount of foods on the market with “High Fructose Corn Syrup” I believe it might be to blame, yet if you are simply eating fruit, you will not have a problem like that.
“Positive thinking (and the placebo effect) helps heal cancer. – Medical treatment is the only way to eliminate cancer cells. Positive thinking does nothing more than help cancer patients mentally prepare for medical treatment. ”
Medical treatment, is not the only way to kill cancer cells, and positive thinking does deeply effect the growth of cancer, stress has a huge impact on the immune system, and when your immune system is weakened, your body cannot fight the cancer cells as efficiently. Despite many believes, your bodies immune system, can fight and kill cancer cells, and you can cure your cancer with a healthy lifestyle and positive thinking. Cancer feeds itself on many things, one of them is processed sugar, which is another reason why you should eat fructose. Cancer was nearly non-existent 50 years ago, the reason cancer developed is most likely through the higher use of chemicals to cheaply produce food, drug, and cosmetic products.
Also, herbal medicines do alot of the times work better then drug treatments, but it really varies what the case is, for example, most antidepressant drugs(paxil, prozac, etc) showed no more impact on people mildly depressed then a placebo. They just have a strong effect on very depressed people, yet plenty of other things were shown to have a similar effect, IE bananas increase serotonin levels, and things like that. The herbal alternative, St Johns Wort, was shown to be more effective then most anti depressants, its much cheaper, and it doesn’t cause kids to shoot up their school.
“There have been studies to see if “positive thinking” has any effect on cancer survival rates. And, the answer is NONE. It’s science, and if that’s pessimistic, well so be it.”
Studies are great, but alot of the studies, depending on who is performing the studies, have bias, studies can be manipulated, very easily, and it is a known fact that stress depresses the immune system, with a strong immune system, less cancer cells will survive.
If you want truthful information that is not biased, you should look at a multitude of sources and use common sense.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
About nr 6: No, the tar does not cause cancer itself, but it makes the more dangerous chemicals stay in your lungs: The radon and polonium is glued to the lung wall with the tar. Even radon from buildings will stay that way and increase the effect. As radon is an alpha-radiant this will cause cellular damage and thus cancer that would not happen from outside the body.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
#22: Apparently the author does not understand the concept of free market. The producers of oil and those who sell it have the right to price their product at any level the deem fit. The user has the right to or not to buy said product. The laws of a free market and supply/demand dictate that as long as people continue to buy said product at the current rate the the product is priced correctly. As you may notice people are now finding ways to cut back on usage. What will happen is that if the profit of the oil companies is affected negatively they will respond by adjusting their prices as needed to get the max return on their product.
Do I like the fact it takes over 50 bucks to fill up my Honda Accord? No. And I drive less, and if the prices do rise I will either take public transportation to work, by a motorcycle or ride a bike. If the cost of oil goes back down, then I might buy a 30 foot long SUV that gets 4 miles per gallon. Free Market is all about whether or not the price of the product is what I as a consumer feel is worth spending my resources on. If not I will use my resources where I see fit. Its basic economics, but I know most people are not fortunate enough to take that class in college and are completely oblivious of the concept.
The Free Market, my friend, is alive and well.
June 25th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Um… #15 chills don’t make you sick…
It says right there that it shocks the immune system, making it less able to fight off viruses. Seems to me it’s actually the VIRUSES & other BUGS that make you sick… not the chill. Maybe that’s splitting hairs, but so is parsing the terminology that the big bang wasn’t an explosion. That word “explosion” is just a word to help lay people better visualize the process. The Cambrian Explosion, wasn’t technically an explosion, either, but that word is used as a descriptor.
June 25th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
About the ‘Chlorine water can damage skin’ holy hell you can say that again, I started swimming alot in chlorined pools recently, and now I have white dry spots all over my skin!
June 25th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
@Brandt:
Your points here are very well stated and completely understood. However, I think Penny was pointing out that speculators (and possibly corrupt governments) are forcing up the cost of oil so that the true market price no longer reflects the true market demand. Yes, people are cutting back, but they still buy gas because they have no other reasonable alternative. True free markets are priced based solely on true demand, without all the fishy unknowns of this current oil market. Nevertheless, your arguments are valid for the most part.
PS: I’ll let Penny respond to some of the other recent comments.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
I like how half of these statements don’t have sources. On top of this most of these are not earth shattering concepts at all. Most of the health points revolve around the concept of moderation, which is just plain obvious.
The only one I kind of disagree with is the point about hard water being healthy. For some reason, the author did not decide to put the word moderation in front of this one. In the area where I live, many patients who have kidney stones can be linked to the tap water they are drinking constantly. The problem with hard water is it contains a lot of calcium. Sure this varies depending on where you live, but seriously, the word moderation should not have been left out of this point.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Brandt,
The free market never existed. It is an abstract simplification invented by Adam Smith. What Marc said is exactly my point.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Ben,
Just because an idea sounds plausible, doesn’t mean it is true. In fact, there have been extensive studies on whether positive thinking can help cancer recovery rates, and they have shown that the answer is no. Studies are better science than anecdotes or
guesswork based on plausible ideas.
Does stress depress the immune system? Yes. Does this mean that positive thinking helps cancer recovery–nope. The question is whether the improvement in the immune system is sufficent to kill the cancer cells. The answer is no.
Can studies be manipulated –YES. But, they are the best tool we have here. And, replication is part of the process.
As to herbal medicine : Serotonin Uptake inhibitors seem to not work–as determined by many recent studies. The is no evidence that depression results from a deficiency of Serotonin.
A more recent hypothesis is that
antidepressants work by aiding the growth of new brain cells—such regrowth is now know to happen in a limited way. Nice idea, as it takes weeks for anti
depressants to work–something that the Sertonin
deficiency hypothesis never explained.
However, there are many classes of antidepressants, and studies have shown that older classes–such as tricyclics and MAO inhibitors do work. And, they work better than St. John’s wort–since studies have shown it doesn’t have more than a placebo effect.
Yes, there was less cancer fifty years ago–not almost none. That was because of two reasons–one, fewer people survived to the age that cancer becomes common, and two, much cancer was misdiagnosed.
A recent redo of histology for old Mayo clinic samples showed that many people who were diagnosed with fatal TB actually had cancer.
There was FAR more chemical pollution fifty years ago, and FAR more than that a hundred years ago.
Fifty years ago, we had huge use of coal–full of radon and other carcinogens.
Fructose interferes with Leptin–the hormone that tells us that we are satiated.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
j,
I recall many science books and tv shows that showed the big bang as an explosion.
It only made sense to me that it wasn’t, when I looked at the solution to the Einstein equations and discovered that it was not at all an explosion.
So you are CORRECT, and it was intended as a metaphor, by Leimatre, the mathematician who first discovered it as a special solution to the Einstein equations–but it widely misunderstood.
Stefan–YES. THANK YOU. BRILLIANT!
June 25th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
drip,
I like your webquote about Unix.
When the engineers at Xerox park invented the idea of the mouse, they studied little boys–who they observed liked to play with toy cars, and decided that was basic. It was
sexist.
But, in fact, they might have come to a different conclusion had they studied older boys, and even Girls! Because verbal commands are also very natural.
They might have even studied ….perish the thought–adults!
Me, I prefer words to pulling a little truck around and pointing little arrows–that is a pain in the neck, and it increases eyestrain, and it is pretty slow, actually.
Optimal would be a verbal command line interface–which now that we have good verbal interfaces is not that hard to implement.
Nobody pulls mice around windows on Star Trek–they talk to the computer. This led to a very scene in Star Trek IV–where Scotty on a trip to the
1980’s thinks the mouse is a ….microphone.
Of course if one is a gamer–one might want a different interface. I don’t play computer games–except chess.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
some of these are absolutely true.. but some seem to be personal opinions.. thumbs down.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Bob,
Interesting, because I get Kidney Stones, and my doctors ( and the latest research studies) show that calcium actually suppresses kidney stones–even those made of calcium.
I was told to drink LOTS of milk. Milk has far more calcium than my local hard water.
But, I wonder if –as you say, your locals have more stones–and if it is really due to hard water and not
another factor ( worth a careful statistical study), whether it is the calcium or another mineral in that water that is the issue. Or, perhaps the combination of that mineral and calcium.
What is healthy for most is often quite unhealthy for special populations–for example: milk is healthy, but not if you are allergic to milk.
Yes, moderation is important. And kidney stones are interesting because many supposed healthy foods are –in the subpopulation of Oxalate Kidney stone formers–unhealthy. This includes Spinach, and dark green vegetables, and many nuts etc. They must be
eaten in moderation.
June 26th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Bob,
I wrote my post rather quickly. It was not an academic research paper–so I didn’t include sources. HOWEVER, one can now run keywords through google and you will find all kinds of sources.
As to earth shattering, the title wasn’t “Earth Shattering Facts….”.
For example, you might do a google search on calcium and kidney stones.
There is a lot of false info in medicine. It becomes very obvious when searching for such things as proper treatment of kidney stones. One gets lots of inconsistent information from various professional medical sites–which is why one should then read the actual research papers –after searching on Medline.
So my basic point is–don’t trust common ( even common medical) wisdom.
Commonly believed –even plausible things–are often dead flat wrong.
Lots of examples of this in the history of medicine.
June 26th, 2008 at 10:45 am
What exactly is the basis for 51? Ever been in a street fight? Have you ever used Karate or “dirty fighting” in fight? Do you have any statistic you could point to to show that people who have taken karate or other self defense classes are less capable at self defense then those who do not? What makes you think Karate is “clean fighting?” Are you talking about Karate as a sport, or Karate as self defense? Were you aware there was a difference?
June 26th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Most of these comments are flawless, until you look more closely. All then come down to using moderation in everything, and there is not just one cause for every condition. There is one main problem: there is no hard and fast rule for anything, really.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
A one sentence explanation for anything is suspicious. Dont you think?
June 26th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Penny, has there ever been any “truths” derived from the scientific method that later were proven to be false by the same method? Do you hold that some phenomena or some “things ” occur or exist that have not yet been proven scientifically? Is there such a thing as a poor scientific explanation? And finally, have you ever had a astrological reading based on an exact time and place of birth. Since it’s nonsense you should do it just for fun. Have someone who really knows you read it with you, then you both can laugh and joke about the foolishness of the nonscientific accurate analysis.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Justin,
As a matter of fact, I have a black belt in Karate, and I have one in jujitsu. I grew up in the South Bronx, and
that should tell you that I have had plenty of experience with people who have been in serious street fights. And, as a girl from the bad part of the Bronx, I have had my fair share of serious scraps.
I also used to date a bouncer from a Bronx bar.
It is the general belief of such people that Karate
( THE KIND TAUGHT IN KARATE SCHOOLS) is
not as useful as dirty fighting.
By dirty fighting, I mean the sort of automatic stuff that a good bar or street fighter knows without thinking.
For amusement, consider the defense against knife
techniques taught in Karate and discuss them with your local street knife fighter. NONE of them really work–a good knife fighter will toss the knife expertly and quickly from hand to hand, will carry more than one knife, and
can easily leap away from your kicks., and will have at least one extra knife or small ax to throw expertly into you from a distance.
The gun defences are even more nonsensical–ask a local marine.
And a good street fighter is very fast. Just as a boxer is a lot faster than the typical Karate student. Few Karate students spend thousands of hours with a speedbag, to get that fast.
The pretty stuff in Karate is basically useless and dangerous in a real fight–such things as high kicks
( above the knee), which are very easy to block and
put you off balance, and flying kicks–which will likely get you killed.
A real fight will be over in seconds, often when the other knife you didn’t see, or the gun, or the steel jacketed boots, or the brass knuckles do their job.
Or when the “innocent” bystander ten feet away behind you tosses that ax from his pocket into your back.
Life is not a karate class, no siree!
Is there a Karate not taught in Karate Schools?
Well, that depends–because Karate is just the generic term for empty hand.
What I meant, of course, is that people who take courses at the Karate school should not think that they are equipped to deal with a serious–in practice–street fighter.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Anarchist,
Well, yes, things have been shown and disproved by
science. That is part of THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
But, astrology has been tested by science for centuries and has never shown any validity.
IT is also in conflict with the basic laws of physics, and to me, that is more important. Planets are just balls of rock–and there is no possible scientific mechanism that they can possibly have to affect your
destiny–whatever the hell “destiny” is.
Of course, I have had my reading based on exact time and place of birth–and it came out a scattergram of correct and incorrect stuff. I also
know the techniques of “cold reading” and wasn’t giving the reader any clues. I could see just how frustrated they were.
My sister was there when the reading was given, and she was almost beside herself with amusement.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
OK, I have had my time with this thread. It was fun, but now it is time to move on. I don’t want to spend days and days defending these points. That wasn’t my point in doing the thread. The point was to stimulate others to find MORE examples.
I am amazed how people are still committed to astrology. The irrational seems to have a life of its own.
We have been to the moon, and we have probes on Mars–how can anyone think that Mars or the Moon have a mystical effect on human destiny? They are just big rocks.
I just don’t get it. What is the emotional basis of it?
June 26th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Anarchist,
In my previous post I made a grammar error, I meant
“she was” instead of “they were”. It’s a common error in colloquial speech.
To learn more about “cold reading” and other scams of the “psychic reader, astrologer ” etc., I suggest going to both the Skeptic Magazine and the
Skeptical Inquirer Magazine. One of them, I forget which it was, sells a nice little book on the techniques.
I learned about all that, way back in the day, by reading the works of Harry Houdini–who liked to expose frauds.
One of my acquaintances was very sick and going into the hospital and she went to a recommended astrologer–who told her she was going to die. She was terrified because the astrologer knew so much about her. I asked her where she had parked her car, and figured out that the astrologer had used binoculars to get her license plates and then some web software to find out a lot about her.
I also explained to her about “cold reading”.
Needless–to–say, her hospital stay went well, and she is still alive and doing very well. She no longer believes in Astrology.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:17 am
Concerning #12: To get technical, corn-based biofuel is not Biodiesel, it’s ethanol. More often than not Biodiesel is made from either Soy or any type of vegetable/waste oil. Pollution-wise, Biodiesel is 100 times less toxic than diesel and can be drunk out of a cup with no ill side effects. Ethanol is made from left over corn stalks and actual corn itself, that’s why it drives food prices up; plus it can’t really be made from any kind of recycling like Biodiesel can.
On ethanol: It’s not more expensive, that evaluation was based on flawed math, it barely takes less energy-in then it puts out. And not only does it drive up food prices but it’s also much less fuel efficient than gasoline(Biodiesel is only a few percent less efficient that regular diesel) putting out only 76,000 BTUs per gallon where as gasoline puts out 125,071 BTUs per gallon. This means, of course, lower prices on a gallon of ethanol vs gas, but a larger expenditure of funds over time because you lose a chunk of your fuel efficiency and have to buy more of it.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:05 am
Penny, I have a hard time believing that you are an expert in psychology, astrophysics, and asskicking, but here is my piece. I still hold that the “nervous breakdown” in today’s society is a misnomer for a panic attack, which is nothing more than the sudden, intense manifestation of an anxiety disorder, the etiology of which can be genetic predisposition, neurochemical imbalance, learned traits, fear, and yes, stress. The “big bang” is a hypothesis that has not made the jump to theory because like quantum physics and string theory, astrophysics is like a religion for scientists. We don’t have the technology to figure anything out for sure, we just make shit up to fill in holes in the equations. Why do you think that the scientists at cern are so busy. And who the f*ck carries an axe in their back pocket? There aren’t highly trained street fighters to meet in a bar. It’s ninety-nine times out of one hundred just some drunk asshole picking a fight. yes he may stab you or gouge out an eye, but if you have your head about you from training, you are way ahead of the game and can throw him or punch his lights out before he has a chance to jack. By the way your long winded, well googled answers are not very impressive.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Penny is going off the deep end with the length of these comments…
Cool list though. All common sense, but fun.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Actually, I think you’re painting a very detailed psychological image of yourself in this article… Personally I don’t agree in many of your conclusions - they are simply to easy. Closed to fast… And besides that I think, that it has a grain of you in it, that somehow affected your “results”…
Nice to get to know you, through this wired form of interactive nakedness…
June 27th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Wade,
The Big bang is a specific solution to the Einstein Field Equations. Try looking in any astrophysics text.
For good measure, why not read ” The Large Scale Structure of Space Time” By Hawking and Ellis. It’s
a math book–I hope your PDE and Tensor Analysis etc. are up to snuff.
As to bars and axes–that depends on the bar.
As to the Ad Hom arguements, I couldn’t care less–stick to arguing the facts.
As to Nervous Breakdown–why not read some history of Psychology–it wasn’t a panic attack. Start with the Works of Charcot, Sidis, and William James.
OFF THE THREAD.
June 28th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Interesting read, but too much opinion and not enough source. It started to get a bit ropey at this bit: “Religious faith alone heals.” When was that claimed as knowledge? (outside of Utah) I’ve never known anyone with an illness to think that going to the church would be better than a doctor. Also, “Herbal medicine is healthier than modern medicine”, that’s not false common knowledge! What kind of people do you associate with?? I would presume that only a very small percentage of people would consider taking St John’s Wort ,or whatever it’s called, instead of chemotherapy. As for the Karate one, what the hell does that even mean? It makes no sense what-so-ever; first the street fighter has a concealed weapon, next he has a couple of axes about his person, finally it’s revealed that our karate guy victim is being flanked by other street fighters who happen to be expert axe throwers too….no offense, but if this really is for an academic paper, you should definately re-evaluate your scholastic method, you’d be thoroughly ripped to shreds in a viva situation.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Penny,
Congratulations on your black belts. I still question the post for a number of reasons. Let me say now though that I regard you as an intelligent person, otherwise I wouldn’t waste my time responding, and I don’t mean to offend.
You wrote “It is the general belief of these people that. . .” Now, you mentioned the scientific method, in all caps, in your response to anarchist, so I don’t need to tell you that the opinions of guys you used to date, while they may be valuable to you, aren’t the type of hard facts or data that would convince someone of an opposing view. But since we are offering our pointless opinions, I know many former marines and police officers that are black belts and train other officers in karate or variations of it for hand-to-hand combat or using their baton or knight stick. Moving on . . .
I agree that the “pretty stuff” in Karate might be dangerous and useless, but it’s not all about pretty stuff. You mentioned high kicks. Well, a kick doesn’t have to be high to be effective. It only has to be as high as the opponent’s knee (or groin). Practicing high kicks strengthen muscles, tendons, and ligaments in the leg, so the low kicks are more powerful.
You wrote about knife disarming techniques. Well, of course an unarmed person is at a disadvantage. Nobody thinks the karate kid would triumph over an armed-to-teeth villain with a gun, two extra concealed knives, and a hidden helper with throwing axes he can throw “expertly.” I can just as easily imagine a scenario with the assailant being a desperate addict, weak, strung-out and low on sleep with little more than a sharpened screwdriver, and karate kid has a tonfa he can use “expertly,” or a knife of his own.
You wrote “Few Karate students spend thousands of hours with a speedbag, to get that fast.” Well, you are right, and the few that do are just as fast as your boxing friends*. There is nothing wrong or useless about the punching techniques taught in karate. You cannot fault the technique if the practitioners are lazy. Or perhaps you can, being a black belt.
You wrote about “the sort of automatic stuff that a good bar or street fighter knows without thinking.” Of course there are some people who are naturally talented or “automatically good” fighters. I will never be as good at basketball as Michael Jordon. However, I don’t think I would be worse at basketball if I practiced twice a week. What about doing push ups, practicing punches, working with a heavy bag, drilling to increase one’s speed, reaction time and aim, sparring to improve one’s instinct, and doing kata to improve muscle memory makes someone ill equipped to handle a fight? Not doing enough of it, if anything. But doing these things can only help.
Finally, I would like address your repeated references to the “kind of Karate taught in schools.” (Sometimes this was done in all caps, as though you were yelling). I am guessing you were referring to my comment about the difference between tournament rules karate or just plain self-defense. I made that distinction because I figured, (although I know now I was incorrect) that your idea of karate was the rigid kind practiced in sparring tournaments. I don’t practice that kind. You should know, especially with a black belt in jujitsu, that there is nothing in traditional japanese martial arts that forbids things like eye-gouging, fishhooks, biting, knees to the groin, chokes, and other “dirty fighting” tricks, as long as they are used in self defense. I haven’t been to every Karate school, but in mine we practice sparring two against one, I have been kneed in some very uncomfortable places, and it does offer weapons training, even though a literal translation may be “open hand.” So, although I won’t don a cape and cowl and rid my city of crime when I earn my black belt, I think it is reasonable to say that I could be a better fighter than someone with no formal training but a strong right hook.
*It’s true that usually a boxer punches harder and faster than a karateka with the same time spent training, but then again, I forgot most dirty fighters are trained boxers, expert knife fighters, and armed with hidden throwing axes as opposed to being drunk or drugged out jerks who just lost their temper because you were standing too close to the girls they like.
June 30th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
People who are in practice as street thug fighters in really bad neighborhoods tend to have quite a lot of practical skills at fighting. If they didn’t they would not have survived and prospered at it.
My main point was that MOST Karate students are not expecting the kind of uncontrolled, unpredictable
environment that a real street fighter is used to. For example, extra knives, unexpected friends with weapons, bricks tossed from buildings etc. People who grow up in dangerous slums ( as I did, in the South Bronx) have a very different mind set that the average Karate Student. Dirty fighting doesn’t just mean gouging eyes–it means weapons, hidden guns,
bricks and later reprisal by a gang of friends. That you learn—if you grow up with it.
Many dirty fighters are indeed expert boxers, having learned their boxing in the street, in golden gloves training, in the military, or in Prison. Many have also studied the oriental martial arts.
Some Karate students are a cut above the usual, as are some Karate schools, ( perhaps you are one, in one), but
my post was written to warn the average middle class type Karate student not to be overconfident.
As to your experience in bars, all of that very much depends on the bar. Bars in really tough neighborhoods are very different from average bars.
The sort of dirty fighters I grew up around earned their living by fighting, were members of dangerous street gangs, KILLED people for fun, and were pretty expert at it all. That was life in the South Bronx.
( as to Capitals, the English language
sometimes uses all caps for emphasis, and I don’t really care about some silly
YELLING convention invented by Usenet.)
You really seem to need to win this discussion, which you seem to regard as some sort of battle. So, ok
feel free to assume that you have won. It isn’t important to me to win. I was never in a competition with anyone here.
I just wanted to clarify my points, so that somebody reading this post doesn’t get killed by overconfidence in their karate training. Based on your answers, it just might be you. You had very little idea of what really goes on, in real street battles in slum
neighborhoods. Don’t think some lessons in
fighting two people at once in a dojo is in any way equivalent to growing up in a real slum.
And, the ax throwing thingy is actually something I saw more than once with my own two eyes. A small ax is a decent concealed weapon–legal to buy in a store.
In a japanese dojo they may teach eye-gouging
( and even judo teaches chokes), but in the slums
people throw battery acid in your eyes. I have one
childhood friend who was blinded that way. And, she was an innocent bystander.
LIfe ain’t a Dojo, no sirree.
NOW I REALLY AM OFF THE THREAD.
p.s. I probably saw more deadly violence by the time I was six years old, than most marines ever see. Life in the big city.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
The only thing I’ve “won” from this thread is knowing to never go to the South Bronx, ever. At this point, I just feel lucky to have never been there. I thought Worcester was bad. Perhaps the planets just aren’t aligned right for that community. That last part was a joke.
July 9th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Penny: Astrology is not about how a piece of rock affects your destiny. To some people that may be so and actually Astrology is many different things to many different people. You can not really classify it down to a certain perspective or belief. You already have a preconceived idea of what astrology is and so this colors your views of it. One way of looking at astrology is not how a planet is influencing your destiny but how is it indicating your destiny alongside your ability to make freewill choices. The reason it can indicate what is going on is because all things are interelated; there is no real cause and effort in anything in this world, only the appearance of so.
An astrologer who makes lousy predictions or inaccurate descriptions does not make astrology ineffective or give cause to dismiss it; it only shows the lack of skill in the astrologer. Also, you can never prove astrology scientifically because in a broader sense of what astrology relfects it is a higher science than the common science as we know it. Common science can be a great tool for our daily lives in this physical world but it has been used as a way to re-enforce what our physical bodies/world already do to our spirit. And that is give the impression that we are seperate entities from each other and that the physical world is the only reality that their is. Well its actually ironic because this physical world is like a subset of the greater spiritual world/s from which things like astrology emanate; you cannot prove something of the greater from something of the lesser. Also is reference to herbs; it all depends on the context. When you say they are ineffective I knew right away the context you put them in and whatever the research was done with them. That is, from the still pervasive western thinking of treating the symptom rather than the whole. Change the context however and they become very much effective, not in treating the symptom, but together with other important factors, that get ignored like when using a pharmaceutical drug, allow the body to do what it knows how to do, heal itself and maintain that health; if only just given the chance and circumstances.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Greg,
First, I use the word “astrology” as defined in the Oxford English dictionary. You may invent whatever
definition you please, but nobody can be expected to conform in advance to your invention.
Second, You speak of “higher science” than standard science–and I have no clue what you are talking about. You also use terms like ” spiritual world”, and “spirit”.
These are neologisms–they have no meaning in the REAL world.
I don’t live in a ghost story—I live in reality, which is what science studies, observes, measures and predicts. I am not a spirit–I am a chemical machine, that works based on physical law–and when I die
(aka, that machines stops functioning) that is the end of me. I have no “Spirit”. Nor do you. “Spirit” is some sort of primitive fantasy to deal with fear of death. I can’t be expected to give advice based on a
Stone age world view.
Science doesn’t accept “ghosts in the machinery” or supernatural explanation–and that is why it is a successful approach. That is the POINT OF SCIENCE. ( Though some science types are willing to be polite and pretend otherwise–they would NOT be able to publish a scientific paper if they said in it–” At this point my spirit prayed to the great spirit and the
chemical changed color”.)
It is science NOT witchcraft!
And, it got us to the moon–by equations, not by incantations ( or prayers–if you prefer that neologism).
As to your comments about “western thinking”–it got us the cures for most of the horrid diseases ( including leprosy, diphtheria, polio, TB, syphilis,
Black Plague) that have plagued the world for thousands of years. Not bad, for about a hundred years of serious science.
And, work is progressing–many cancers that used to be death sentences are now controllable with good survival rates, etc. And we are getting better at it.
//Change the context however and they become very much effective, not in treating the symptom
The purpose of a drug is to control or cure a disease.
It is clearly established–by controlled statistical double blind studies– that almost all herbal medicines are not as effective as modern western medicine. When a plant does work, it is analyzed,
and a more effective medicine is constructed. Aspirin
is MORE effective than slippery elm bark–because it was chemically improved.
As to changing context–sometimes one can fix a problem by changing diet or exercise etc., that is ALSO part of western medicine.
//allow the body to do what it knows how to do, heal itself a
Often, what it knows how to do is to DIE. Consider Black Plague–easy to cure with a single dose of modern antibiotic–but it killed MILLIONS of people in the middle ages–who were using herbal medicine, and “context changing”.
Ask someone whose retina was detaching–and was saved from blindness by laser surgery, if they think that the body knows how to heal itself and maintain
that health. Then ask a type one diabetic teen–who would be dead without insulin shots–if they would prefer to give up on western scientific medicine.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Ok, maybe two or three hundred years for modern western medical science–which basically I define as starting with the “MICROSCOPE”.
No, there are not devils causing this disease, nor
is it the wrath of gods,nor an evil spell, nor an imbalance of
mystical chi–it is caused by bacteria.
World views:
There is a dividing line between those who think
” Planets and destiny, Karma and chi” and those who
think: Microscope.
There is another dividing line between those
think nature is defined by words, and those
who understand that nature is best described by equations.
” All things are connected.”
” That’s nice–what is the differential equation of that connection?–and can you give me a falsifiable prediction to several decimal places from it?”
That is called the Western scientific mind set–and it gave us the computer, electronics and the internet on which we are communicating.
While the mystics worshiped the sun and contemplated their navels, intoning mantras of magic words–the western world discovered the atomic reaction that powers the stars.
E=mc^2 is reality.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:10 am
I think had you stopped at 25 or 30 you could still be reasonably within your claim of dealing in knowledge, and some of this information is useful. However, the balance of the list comprises your opinions or your world view.
I find #32 the most glaring, and odious. Most contemporary eye problems result from improper use of the eyes. The first most logical way to improve your vision is to relearn to use your eyes properly. To dimiss the entire field of natural vision improvement because of problems with one product only reveals close-mindedness or ignorance. And that’s just the beginning, but others have done a good job separating opinions from facts.
July 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Penny:
P - “First, I use the word “astrology” as defined in the Oxford English dictionary. You may invent whatever
definition you please, but nobody can be expected to conform in advance to your invention.”
G - This is true that nobody can be expected to conform to how I define it. No one can be expected to conform to an Oxford English dictionary either. Of course no one can conform in advance either, this is why I explained in part how I define astrology for if I didn’t, how else would you know in terms of this dialogue?
P - “Second, You speak of “higher science” than standard science–and I have no clue what you are talking about. You also use terms like ” spiritual world”, and “spirit”.
These are neologisms–they have no meaning in the REAL world.”
G - I use those terms because they are not part of your lexicon of understanding, although it is within your grasp if you are willing and open to it; they are only indicators to that which transcends thinking and reasoning amongst others – so long as you wish to remain in that thinking realm soley you will never understand. They are only neologic to you not myself and neither more valid or invalid. They only have no meaning in your world because you choose not to include it. Meaning is only subjective and hence also the REAL world is different to the observer; The REAL world has no definite boundary that is same for all and your REAL world is not anymore valid than mine, vice versa.
P - “I don’t live in a ghost story—I live in reality, which is what science studies, observes, measures and predicts.”
G - You try to discredit my terms by calling them neologisms yet you introduce the term ghost story without qualifying it. Before you go to your Oxford dictionary or quote it the truth of the matter is you were just trying to put in a digg.
P – “ I am not a spirit–I am a chemical machine, that works based on physical law–and when I die
(aka, that machines stops functioning) that is the end of me. I have no “Spirit”. “
G - That’s the nature of the physical body, your sensory experiences cover over your awareness that you are aware which does not need a body to be aware. Its not that you have a spirit it is that you are a spirit – or whatever term you wish to use any term is both appropriate and inadequate since spirit is infinite and to define it which is a finite limits its true nature. You are by choice in a state of denial saying you are only a physical body since if you were you would not bother trying to defend your views in this dialog, not would you care if someone came along and took your life; why would you bother? In 200 years from now your body will be dead anyway so why do you care?
P – “ Nor do you.”
G – That’s right. This is because I am a Spirit, I cannot have something I am. I am a Spirit that has a physical body at the moment.
“Spirit” is some sort of primitive fantasy to deal with fear of death. I can’t be expected to give advice based on a
Stone age world view.”
G – Since I have experienced many deaths of different bodies why would I fear the death of this one I am currently in? I don’t recall asking for advice on a subject you haven’t disclosed for that which I am soliciting. Again the truth of the matter when you are using the terms “primitive fantasy” and “Stone age” is nothing but to put me down, discredit me, and make yourself seem superior. That is the function of EGO and it is the EGO which is what fears death. EGO is but the insistence to remain appearing separate and distinct from all others. But that is in the level of relativity and anything relative comes to pass; meaning all things physical or separate come into existence change and die (or goes away). That too will happen your EGO as well as mine.
P – “Science doesn’t accept “ghosts in the machinery” or supernatural explanation–and that is why it is a successful approach. That is the POINT OF SCIENCE.”
G – Science actually has no reality in this physical world, it is only a human mental construct; it is nothing more but a different form of religion. As well just as you would have various types of catholic churches and denominations you have different views, branches and beliefs of what science is.
P – “ ( Though some science types are willing to be polite and pretend otherwise–they would NOT be able to publish a scientific paper if they said in it–” At this point my spirit prayed to the great spirit and the chemical changed color”.) “
G – Nor would a catholic priest in a catholic church have anyone come or they themselves continue to be allowed to preach in that church if he all of a sudden decided to start preaching the Koran. Your statement has no relevance other than showing you continue to want to denigrate what I am saying. You claim my terms are neologisms yet you create new ones derived from my own “my spirit prayed” having declared you don’t know what I am talking about but yet imply you do saying it has no merit(the term you invented) because it would not be published.
P - It is science NOT witchcraft!
G – And apples are not oranges, so?
P - And, it got us to the moon–by equations, not by incantations ( or prayers–if you prefer that neologism).
G – Equations can’t do anything because they are not real, they are only constructs and tools of the mind. What about the politics, aspirations(aka spirit), emotions, motives(both hidden and seen). What about the sun shining on the earth that allows us to grow and live in all our different ways, what about all the resources of the planet that allowed us to us. Without all these things in place no science would have gotten us to the moon; we wouldn’t even be here to go in the first place. Where do you think the intelligence to use equations comes from to begin with?
P - As to your comments about “western thinking”–it got us the cures for most of the horrid diseases ( including leprosy, diphtheria, polio, TB, syphilis,
Black Plague) that have plagued the world for thousands of years. Not bad, for about a hundred years of serious science.
G – You assume I think the tools of science are not good. I do not see that. To me it is double edged sword because it is ultimately a creation of the mind for mostly reasoning and common sense(common sense meaning the perceptions only pertaining to that of the physical body senses of sight, hearing, touch, taste and smell). When one allows their spirit to flow into their lives then science becomes a great tool however when spirit is closed off science does not serve well. By the way most of the diseases that so-called plagued the world were only plaguing the western world mainly Europe; and most of these diseases were eradicated by better sanitation. It took science in its first stages to show there are such things as small bugs like viruses that cannot be seen with the eye and that it would be prudent to eradicate their source, ie again better sanitation. However, many indigenous cultures throughout the world did not face diseases like those in western society because they inherently knew (without science) to live in ways that that do not create unsanitary conditions.
P – And, work is progressing–many cancers that used to be death sentences are now controllable with good survival rates, etc. And we are getting better at it.
G - Our western society created many of the diseases we aim to eradicate to begin with; and there are already cures that are suppressed from being utilized ; ones that both use science fully, some with little, some with a mix of science.
P - //Change the context however and they become very much effective, not in treating the symptom
The purpose of a drug is to control or cure a disease.
G – I have already alluded to that, and that is misguided because you are only treating the symptom, not the underlying cause. For if you only ever are successful in treating the symptom you run the risk of the cause creating a problem elsewhere. Its like pushing a beach ball down into the water, keeping your hand above one spot will prevent it from coming up there but that doesn’t stop it from popping up elsewhere.
P - It is clearly established–by controlled statistical double blind studies– that almost all herbal medicines are not as effective as modern western medicine. When a plant does work, it is analyzed,
and a more effective medicine is constructed. Aspirin is MORE effective than slippery elm bark–because it was chemically improved.
G – You still didn’t get my point… your still taking it out of context and assuming that slippery elm would be used like one might use aspirin. Your view point is too treat the symptom. If someone has a headache and your only treating the symptom of the headache, then yes aspirin (according to the context of the research you cite) would be more effective than slippery elm. However change the context and aspirin can fail miserably. What if the cause of the headache is because the person is having a difficult time sleeping; well low and behold aspirin does not help people sleep, so while they get immediate relief from the aspirin they have to take more aspirin in the morning because they still didn’t get any sleep. But on the other hand although slippery-elm has is weaker in affecting the headache it also has the ability to help promote the body to sleep; I’ll let you figure out the rest of that one. This is an oversimplified example but only so because you’ve never studied things outside the context of scientific reasoning. Different traditional societies had different models(contexts) for how to use herbs, and although their models where different they shared the common approach of doing things from a wholistic approach which served well. Indiginous natives had theirs, Orientals had theirs like the ying and yang and Indians had theirs with Ayurveda. For example with ayurveda if you have the symptom of a headache, the headache is not treated at all, but used in part in assessing what doshas are imbalanced. Then herbs(or not and in which in the case of a headache may call for a different herb other than slipper-elm) amongst other things are used together to balance the doshas which results the elimination of the symptom (headache in this case). Now if you yourself and the so called researchers who participated in the research you cite had ever done any considerable investigation into applying herbs from a different perspective you would find very different results and conclusions.
The short sightedness of treating symptoms is you never get at the source or cause. Push a beach ball down in the water in one spot and keeping your hands where they are will prevent it from coming up in that spot but it will surface elsewhere. Treating a symptom well only results in another symptom emerging as something else and so round and round you go. Funny, scientific stats show that over 100,000 people die from prescriptions a year; and this does not included mistakes in diagnosis or harmfull mixing with other drugs, but simply from the unforeseen side-effects of the prescriptions themselves. You don’t get that with herbs and associated modalities. Our bodies are organic and not like a machine. Scientific thinking when used solely or primarily is like a machine. It is done in isolation (it sets up its own environment to justify itself – ie it controls the parameters, excluding or including only the factors it wishes to use; And this is because it cannot include all factors because by its nature does not have the capacity to include all factors). The anology of this is the lab; everything is set up for certain conditions, right?; and the results observed accordingly. Yet what science does is try to take it from the lab to the real world and changing that context changes the results.
P - As to changing context–sometimes one can fix a problem by changing diet or exercise etc., that is ALSO part of western medicine.
G – Yes it is part of science but that knowledge existed before science, again science is not just some thing but a construct of peoples minds. It is only that people are beginning to include more into their view of science than what was held before. Things like changing diet, exercise, herbalism, homeopathy, astrology, prayer, mysticism, philosophy, radionics, lifestyle routines, entertainment, career, family, communities , yes science too…all these things can go towards not only alleviating diseases but also eliminating them from arising in the first place.
P - //allow the body to do what it knows how to do, heal itself a
Often, what it knows how to do is to DIE.
G – Actually that is not true, the body only knows how to live, you cannot show the body knows how to DIE. It only dies because it failed to keep on going. Dieing is not something that is done; it is the result of stopping to live, and if what you introduce to the body that is not good for it, it will fail if not strong enough to deal with it. That is not knowing how to die; that is only having limited ability to live.
P - Consider Black Plague–easy to cure with a single dose of modern antibiotic–but it killed MILLIONS of people in the middle ages–who were using herbal medicine, and “context changing”.
G – Actually the people of the middle ages where not as you quote “context changing” they were still operating from the mindset of intellect, emotions and body senses primarily. If they had been living from the context of spirit primarily they would not have had to of contended with a massive plague, and would have used herbs and other things much more effectively, rather than treat it like a symptom drug. And further the Black Plague is a poor example because you assume to much about a historical event that may or may not have occurred as published in a contemporary history textbook.
P - Ask someone whose retina was detaching–and was saved from blindness by laser surgery, if they think that the body knows how to heal itself and maintain
that health.
G – I would ask what situation did the body get into that it encountered an influence that was stronger that its ability to maintain the ability to see or develop that ability. And how can you say the laser surgery is responsible for the ability to turn around blindness. It was only a tool in helping the body and conversely it could be a tool in destroying that ability. But what remains is the body knows how to see regardless, if you just let it. After the surgery it is the body maintaining the seeing; blood flowing through capillaries, nutrients being delivered, new cells replacing old ones. No amount of surgery can make a body see with its eyes unless it is participating itself.
P - Then ask a type one diabetic teen–who would be dead without insulin shots–if they would prefer to give up on western scientific medicine.
G- If they weren’t living through the context of a western society they wouldn’t be diabetic and need insulin shots to begin with.
July 11th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
P - Ok, maybe two or three hundred years for modern western medical science–which basically I define as starting with the “MICROSCOPE”.
No, there are not devils causing this disease, nor
is it the wrath of gods,nor an evil spell, nor an imbalance of
mystical chi–it is caused by bacteria.
G – What is your definition of devils, gods, evil spells and mystical chi?
And reference to what disease?
What bacteria as well? And what is the causing the bacteria to create the disease?
What is the causative agent to set these things in motion.
P - World views:
There is a dividing line between those who think
” Planets and destiny, Karma and chi” and those who
think: Microscope.
G – Other than your opinion, how is this so( that there is a definite dividing line placed where you indicate);
P - There is another dividing line between those
think nature is defined by words, and those
who understand that nature is best described by equations.
G – U